30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

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RichieB
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30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » June 17th, 2009, 6:26 am

After upgrading my 5th generation 30GB iPod Video to 240GB everything worked fine with several GB worth of data. However, when I loaded 200GB of mp3s the iTunesDB was 44MB and did not get recognized. The iPod reported 0 songs which should have been 30415. After some trial and error I was able to get it to recognize 17750 songs (iTunesDB size of 25MB), but only after a reset. This led me to believe it was a RAM issue.

After some research I found the 30GB iPod has 32MB of RAM while to 60GB/80GB version has 64MB. So I bought a second hand 5.5G 80GB iPod Video and converted it to 240GB. This still wouldn't load the 44MB iTunesDB. Using gnupod I was able to remove some unneeded mhod entries and cut the iTunesDB down to 34MB which worked just fine.

So I just want to issue a general warning: even though a 30GB iPod Video will recognize the 240GB hard disk, it does not support filling it with mp3s. If you use a lot of video or podcasts, perhaps the iTunesDB will stay small enough, but it's not very likely. Even with the 64MB model I had to tweak the iTunesDB to make it work for me.

Does anyone here have similar experiences?

ave4uevoli
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by ave4uevoli » June 18th, 2009, 12:50 pm

i posted in the other 240gb thread. But yes. I have the exact same problem. My 30 gb upgraded ipod can't handle more than 18,000 (estimated) songs. After that the songs won't show up anymore, and it goes into a never ending loop with the apple logo.

I have noticed that my database is actually almost 220 mb... I have a lot of playlists. There's no way I will be able to get that down to 34 megabytes... even if I upgrade the logic board on my ipod...

This sucks - hopefully someone will find a solution.

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » June 18th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Your iTunesDB (inside the /iPod_Control/iTunes/ directory of your iPod) is 220MB?? Even with hundreds of playlists with thousands of songs that is unlikely. Every playlist has a description (let's say 1k) and the song ids (let's say 100 bytes per song), so your playlists will never account for more than a few MBs. Smart live updating playlists are even smaller, as they are build on the iPod, not in the iTunesDB (only the description and rules are stored).

I thinks it's very odd that Rapid Repair didn't actually test filling a 30GB converted to 240GB iPod with songs before telling us this upgrade is compatible. Even the 60GB/80GB iPods have to be tweaked to be able to support the full 240GB of mp3s.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by GreenGiant » June 19th, 2009, 5:40 am

I suppose you mean that your itunesControl file is 220MB? (mine is too)
Anyway, RichieB, can you explain some more what you did on iTunesDB to get it smaller?
You said "remove some unneeded mhod entries ", this is eg. removing the genre or componist or something like that?

Thanks for the info.

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » June 19th, 2009, 6:05 am

Exactly right, I only kept the following mhods:

path (where the mp3 is stored on the iPod, required)
title (also required)
artist
album
description (because I use this in my smart playlists)

So everything else like genre, sorttitle, sortartist, etc, is gone. You can read more technical details here. Gnupod is a command line tool for managing your iPod content written in perl. I realize this is not for everyone, but other open source tools with a GUI such as Songbird or Floola can be altered to do the same thing.

For anyone who wants to try gnupod, my modifications are not in CVS yet. You'll have to patch it yourself until it is accepted.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by ave4uevoli » June 19th, 2009, 11:59 am

Yes, sorry, I was looking at the wrong thing. My ITunesDB is 42 megs... my itunes control file is 229 megs...

I find it sad that there doesn't seem to be a way around this. I mean, even if I upgrade my 30gb ipod video toa 60gb version with more ram, I'll end up with the same problem... Rargh.. this is just very upsetting. What's the point of getting this if we can't fill it up with all of our music or if we can't use the full 223 gigs worth of space?

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by nancy111 » July 30th, 2009, 4:57 am

can you explain some more what you did on iTunesDB to get it smaller?

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by Aussie240Gb » August 7th, 2009, 7:21 pm

I have the same/similar problem with a 'brand new" (???) 240Gb (supplied upgraded by Rapid Repair from an 80Gb Ipod). My "new" ipod arrived and worked out of the box. iTunes recognized it and i happily set about syncing 160Gb of songs. That's where the happy part of the story ends. I can't get out of the Apple logo loop. Every reboot ends the same way ... a frozen screen with the Apple logo. Also, ITunes no longer recognizes the iPod so I can't restore it. Suggestions? & please, keep any instructions simple if possible.

.1. How do I get past the apple logo

.2. Assuming someone tells me .1. will iTunes recognise the iPod? Should I restore it?

.3. If I do get back to to an iPod that turns on and is recognised by Itunes, what's the simplest way to avoid future problems? Should I limit the size of library that I'm trying to transfer?

Cheers

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by dareekmon » August 11th, 2009, 9:02 pm

This 240g upgrade is a nightmare as there seem to be several unwritten rules to simply downloading my music. I have >200g worth of music, and as one person said, when the iPod reaches a certain level (about 180g) it will erase all data on the iPod but still show it on my computer on iTunes. I did as was suggested and created playlists <30k songs, and was finally able to get all my songs on the iPod if I eliminated the artwork. That's a small sacrifice, but you lose Shuffle Play (which is a great loss when you want to play this huge database in random order). Next, I added about 200 songs as I assumed (incorrectly) that now I had the problem fixed. Well, the database got erased again. Now I must again Restore the unit and redownload (16 hrs) the songs. This is an absolute pain in the butt trying to solve these hidden riddles.

Does anyone have similar issues and did you get them resolved?

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » August 12th, 2009, 1:19 pm

The only solution I am aware of (since I wrote it myself) is using gnupod 0.98.8 or later and set the following in your .gnupodrc:

Code: Select all

low_ram_attr = path title artist album
This will strip all optional attributes from the iTunesDB except the required path and title (and the still optional but handy artist and album attributes). This will make the iTunesDB as small as possible. My iPod currently has 30000 songs totaling 200GB on it including artwork, and it works fine.

Gnupod is a command line based tool written in perl. It runs on Linux, Mac OS X and Windows (via cygwin for example). Command line tools are not for everyone, but you can ask other free iTunes replacements such as Songbird and Floola to implement a similar strategy.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by gk2012 » August 27th, 2009, 10:32 pm

Thanks for answering that Richie!
I was thinking of just deleting some songs to work properly, but that would make the 240 GB kind of useless.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by alfistogt » October 2nd, 2009, 4:12 pm

Hi

I also have the 240GB iPod (upgrade from a 60GB). Until now, I haven't had any problem with my +/- 20 000 titles (125 GB) on it. Now, after reading this thread, I'm worried about my iPod. So, it seems that I will have one day the same problems with an overloaded iTunesDB...
As I don't use Linux, can anybody tell/explain me in detail, how I can tweak the iTunesDB with Windows Vista?

RichieB, can yo explain me what you mean with "...but you can ask other free iTunes replacements such as Songbird and Floola to implement a similar strategy"? Or, could you tell me how to use this gnupod script on Vista? Is this for tweaking only the iTunesDB on your iPod, or do you also have to strip all optional attributes from the iTunes music library on your PC?

I hope someone can help me before my iPod is stopping to work...

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » October 7th, 2009, 1:59 am

Gnupod is a only a replacement for iTunes when it comes to loading music to your iPod. It will only create the iTunesDB on you iPod, as it does not keep any state on you PC (as iTunes does). It should run fine on Vista through cygwin.

If using cygwin/command line tools are too much for you, you probably want to use other free tools that have a GUI such as Songbird and Floola that will run on Windows. You can ask their maintainers to implement the same work around as I did in gnupod. You can E-mail them, ask a question on their forum, etc. It should not be too hard form them to lift the work around from the gnupod source code. If needed they can get in touch with the gnupod developers through our mailing list. We will then help them to implement the work around in their software.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by andysensible » October 7th, 2009, 11:12 am

I just started having an issue where the battery drains too fast now on my upgraded 240GB Ipod.. It was the 60GB Ipod originally and ran great.. I got 15-17 hours out of the battery for audio playback. now It drains after 3-4. I had to replace the motherboard (with the sameone) and replaced the battery again and now its getting worse. Has anyone else experienced this?

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by Mr Odd » June 3rd, 2010, 5:04 pm

It's been a while since the last update to this thread. How has everyone been dealing with filling up their 240gb iPods? I'm considering getting one but I'm wary of the hoops I'll have to jump through to get more than 30000 tracks on it.

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » June 9th, 2010, 1:36 pm

I currently have 33500 tracks loaded, and it is still working fine. I'm almost out of hdd space however. :-(

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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by Mr Odd » June 9th, 2010, 1:50 pm

What gnupod command line do you recommend to keep the iTunesDB as small as possible? And do you give up any features by doing so?

Have you tried Rockbox on your 240?

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » June 9th, 2010, 1:57 pm

It is not configured on the command line, but in the ~/.gnupodrc file. The relevant option I use is:

Code: Select all

low_ram_attr = path artist title album desc
However, the smallest possible iTunesDB you get with using:

Code: Select all

low_ram_attr = path title
Of course you will loose the artist, album title, etc. So pick the attributes you need, and see if the iTunesDB still works for you. Valid attributes are:

Code: Select all

title path album artist genre fdesc eq comment category composer group desc podcastguid podcastrss chapterdata subtitle tvshow tvepisode tvnetwork albumartist artistthe keywords sorttitle sortalbum sortalbumartist sortcomposer sorttvshow

naz4viper
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by naz4viper » September 27th, 2010, 4:11 pm

Hi,

I have a question on this topic that has not been asked before (at least that I know of). is the itunesdb playlist limitation something specific only with Apple stock firmware & Itunes software? What is someone is running rockbox firmware? is there any such issue using rockbox and windows explorer to drag&drop files?

RichieB
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Re: 30GB iPod upgraded to 240GB is RAM limited

Post by RichieB » September 28th, 2010, 4:17 pm

Rockbox should work fine with large collections. The itunesdb is an iTunes/iPod firmware limitation. Since Rockbox is an alternative firmware it does not have this limitation (but might have others).

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